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	<title>Comments on: Oklahoma Abortion Law: Bloggers get it Wrong</title>
	<atom:link href="http://33bits.org/2009/10/09/oklahoma-abortion-law-the-bloggers-get-it-wrong/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://33bits.org/2009/10/09/oklahoma-abortion-law-the-bloggers-get-it-wrong/</link>
	<description>The End of Anonymized Data and What to Do About It</description>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Stubs</title>
		<link>http://33bits.org/2009/10/09/oklahoma-abortion-law-the-bloggers-get-it-wrong/#comment-722</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeffrey Stubs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 06:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://33bits.org/?p=254#comment-722</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that people are still afraid of the Big Brother (I mean the original one, from George Orwell&#039;s book) that will observe their every move and use information about them to make them more submissive. Every new innovation that involves data collecting is making people more nervous - and I don&#039;t blame them. There is always something that keeps us aware of the thing that our data can be someday be stolen or use by someone that would like to use them against us.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that people are still afraid of the Big Brother (I mean the original one, from George Orwell&#8217;s book) that will observe their every move and use information about them to make them more submissive. Every new innovation that involves data collecting is making people more nervous &#8211; and I don&#8217;t blame them. There is always something that keeps us aware of the thing that our data can be someday be stolen or use by someone that would like to use them against us.</p>
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		<title>By: Arvind</title>
		<link>http://33bits.org/2009/10/09/oklahoma-abortion-law-the-bloggers-get-it-wrong/#comment-721</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Arvind]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://33bits.org/?p=254#comment-721</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks :-) I only write when I have something to say, and so occasionally go months without a post. Subscribing to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://33bits.org/feed/atom&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;feed&lt;/a&gt; might be easier than visiting from time to time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks :-) I only write when I have something to say, and so occasionally go months without a post. Subscribing to the <a href="http://33bits.org/feed/atom" rel="nofollow">feed</a> might be easier than visiting from time to time.</p>
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		<title>By: Vidyaguy</title>
		<link>http://33bits.org/2009/10/09/oklahoma-abortion-law-the-bloggers-get-it-wrong/#comment-717</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vidyaguy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://33bits.org/?p=254#comment-717</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Semi-accidentally ran across your website.  It is rare to find a mind that actually works, rather than careening from one emotional fix to another.  I suspect that I will return from time to time, just to find some refreshing and relatively logical commentary.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Semi-accidentally ran across your website.  It is rare to find a mind that actually works, rather than careening from one emotional fix to another.  I suspect that I will return from time to time, just to find some refreshing and relatively logical commentary.</p>
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		<title>By: Spotlight OK &#187; HB 1595</title>
		<link>http://33bits.org/2009/10/09/oklahoma-abortion-law-the-bloggers-get-it-wrong/#comment-708</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Spotlight OK &#187; HB 1595]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://33bits.org/?p=254#comment-708</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Left hypocrisy aside, upon further scrutiny, 33 Bits of Entropy, a data analysis blog, argues that the way the data is collected will not serve to identify the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Left hypocrisy aside, upon further scrutiny, 33 Bits of Entropy, a data analysis blog, argues that the way the data is collected will not serve to identify the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Arvind</title>
		<link>http://33bits.org/2009/10/09/oklahoma-abortion-law-the-bloggers-get-it-wrong/#comment-707</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Arvind]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://33bits.org/?p=254#comment-707</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not calling &quot;thousands of unconnected people&quot; a special-interest group. I&#039;m calling Feminists for Choice, the organization that first raised the re-identification claim in their blog, a special-interest group. I should have made that clearer in my post.

&quot;Mostly though, I think I don’t like your ‘lamenting’ of blogger’s actions.&quot;

Well, we&#039;ll just have to disagree on that one, then. That comment isn&#039;t just from this incident, but rather something that I&#039;ve felt for years, and it is my considered opinion. I feel that more misinformation than information has been spread through these periodic outcries and outrages in the blogosphere. 

I really like this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.shirky.com/weblog/2009/04/the-failure-of-amazonfail/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;quote by Clay Shirky&lt;/a&gt; (about the #amazonfail incident):&lt;blockquote&gt;Though the event initially triggered enormous moral outrage, evidence that it didn’t actually happen didn’t quell that outrage. Moral judgment is harder to reverse than other, less emotional forms; when an event precipitates the cleansing anger of righteousness, admitting you were mistaken feels dirty. As a result, there can be an enormous premium put on finding rationales for continuing to feel aggrieved, should the initial rationale disappear. Call it ‘conservation of outrage.’&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not calling &#8220;thousands of unconnected people&#8221; a special-interest group. I&#8217;m calling Feminists for Choice, the organization that first raised the re-identification claim in their blog, a special-interest group. I should have made that clearer in my post.</p>
<p>&#8220;Mostly though, I think I don’t like your ‘lamenting’ of blogger’s actions.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, we&#8217;ll just have to disagree on that one, then. That comment isn&#8217;t just from this incident, but rather something that I&#8217;ve felt for years, and it is my considered opinion. I feel that more misinformation than information has been spread through these periodic outcries and outrages in the blogosphere. </p>
<p>I really like this <a href="http://www.shirky.com/weblog/2009/04/the-failure-of-amazonfail/" rel="nofollow">quote by Clay Shirky</a> (about the #amazonfail incident):<br />
<blockquote>Though the event initially triggered enormous moral outrage, evidence that it didn’t actually happen didn’t quell that outrage. Moral judgment is harder to reverse than other, less emotional forms; when an event precipitates the cleansing anger of righteousness, admitting you were mistaken feels dirty. As a result, there can be an enormous premium put on finding rationales for continuing to feel aggrieved, should the initial rationale disappear. Call it ‘conservation of outrage.’</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://33bits.org/2009/10/09/oklahoma-abortion-law-the-bloggers-get-it-wrong/#comment-706</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://33bits.org/?p=254#comment-706</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d have to disagree about your special interest group comment too.  The idea of trying to restrain the power of government, that touches a lot more people that what you&#039;d just describe as a special interest group, unless you want to call thousands and thousands of unconnected people an organization.  PublicRecords rightly called you on that one.

Mostly though, I think I don&#039;t like your &#039;lamenting&#039; of blogger&#039;s actions.  Even if it&#039;s overstated, this is definitely an issue that deserves the attention.  You might be understating what someone can do with information that gets slipped, or the information that&#039;s readily available.

And even beyond that, you mention that the law has some pretty obvious flaws, so...again, the outrage comes from where?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d have to disagree about your special interest group comment too.  The idea of trying to restrain the power of government, that touches a lot more people that what you&#8217;d just describe as a special interest group, unless you want to call thousands and thousands of unconnected people an organization.  PublicRecords rightly called you on that one.</p>
<p>Mostly though, I think I don&#8217;t like your &#8216;lamenting&#8217; of blogger&#8217;s actions.  Even if it&#8217;s overstated, this is definitely an issue that deserves the attention.  You might be understating what someone can do with information that gets slipped, or the information that&#8217;s readily available.</p>
<p>And even beyond that, you mention that the law has some pretty obvious flaws, so&#8230;again, the outrage comes from where?</p>
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		<title>By: Arvind</title>
		<link>http://33bits.org/2009/10/09/oklahoma-abortion-law-the-bloggers-get-it-wrong/#comment-703</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Arvind]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 01:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://33bits.org/?p=254#comment-703</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Kamalika,

That&#039;s a good question. Fortunately, the law spells out the categories. Most of the histograms are 1-dimensional, and none have more than 2 or 3 variables. And the multi-dimensional ones look pretty innocous, like (age, marital status, race). This is for the whole state, not on a county-by-county basis.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kamalika,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a good question. Fortunately, the law spells out the categories. Most of the histograms are 1-dimensional, and none have more than 2 or 3 variables. And the multi-dimensional ones look pretty innocous, like (age, marital status, race). This is for the whole state, not on a county-by-county basis.</p>
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		<title>By: kamalika</title>
		<link>http://33bits.org/2009/10/09/oklahoma-abortion-law-the-bloggers-get-it-wrong/#comment-702</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kamalika]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 21:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://33bits.org/?p=254#comment-702</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;the only information that is made public are annual reports with statistical tallies of the number of abortions performed under very broad categories, which presents a negligible to non-existent re-identification risk.&lt;/i&gt;

Do you know how broad these categories are? If they are releasing a multidimensional histogram of values, and several of the bins contain just a few people, it could still be a re-identification risk.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>the only information that is made public are annual reports with statistical tallies of the number of abortions performed under very broad categories, which presents a negligible to non-existent re-identification risk.</i></p>
<p>Do you know how broad these categories are? If they are releasing a multidimensional histogram of values, and several of the bins contain just a few people, it could still be a re-identification risk.</p>
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		<title>By: Arvind</title>
		<link>http://33bits.org/2009/10/09/oklahoma-abortion-law-the-bloggers-get-it-wrong/#comment-700</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Arvind]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 22:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://33bits.org/?p=254#comment-700</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your outrage is charming, but misdirected.

&quot;So a FOIA request is all you need and then you CAN get all this data and put it online, right?&quot;

The law specifically states that the information is exempt from the Oklahoma Open Records Act (the FOIA doesn&#039;t apply here since the data isn&#039;t being held by the federal government).

&quot;And the Dept. of Health is not staffed by religious persons who might misuse the data, or “leak” it, right?&quot;

I have no opinion on that. I already said I&#039;m not defending the law. Could you please try to understand that fact? I&#039;m only saying that the claim about re-identifability doesn&#039;t check out.

&quot;Just because they ARE DEFINITELY going to release aggregate reports (Section 7) DOESN’T mean they aren’t going to release INDIVIDUAL reports, which they consider would not “reasonably lead to the identification of any individual female”.&quot;

That may be true, I don&#039;t know; it&#039;s for lawyers to figure out. But again, it is beside my point, which is that the public outrage has been premised on the interpretation that the law &lt;b&gt;mandates&lt;/b&gt; the release of individual records.

&quot;Special interest groups? Where have you been for the last decade of government encroachment? Trying to stop government from intimidating patients and physicians is not a special interest group.&quot;

Holy crap, you need &lt;strike&gt;a dictionary&lt;/strike&gt; Wikipedia. That is in fact exactly what &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interest_group&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;special interest group&lt;/a&gt; means.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your outrage is charming, but misdirected.</p>
<p>&#8220;So a FOIA request is all you need and then you CAN get all this data and put it online, right?&#8221;</p>
<p>The law specifically states that the information is exempt from the Oklahoma Open Records Act (the FOIA doesn&#8217;t apply here since the data isn&#8217;t being held by the federal government).</p>
<p>&#8220;And the Dept. of Health is not staffed by religious persons who might misuse the data, or “leak” it, right?&#8221;</p>
<p>I have no opinion on that. I already said I&#8217;m not defending the law. Could you please try to understand that fact? I&#8217;m only saying that the claim about re-identifability doesn&#8217;t check out.</p>
<p>&#8220;Just because they ARE DEFINITELY going to release aggregate reports (Section 7) DOESN’T mean they aren’t going to release INDIVIDUAL reports, which they consider would not “reasonably lead to the identification of any individual female”.&#8221;</p>
<p>That may be true, I don&#8217;t know; it&#8217;s for lawyers to figure out. But again, it is beside my point, which is that the public outrage has been premised on the interpretation that the law <b>mandates</b> the release of individual records.</p>
<p>&#8220;Special interest groups? Where have you been for the last decade of government encroachment? Trying to stop government from intimidating patients and physicians is not a special interest group.&#8221;</p>
<p>Holy crap, you need <strike>a dictionary</strike> Wikipedia. That is in fact exactly what <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interest_group" rel="nofollow">special interest group</a> means.</p>
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		<title>By: PublicRecords</title>
		<link>http://33bits.org/2009/10/09/oklahoma-abortion-law-the-bloggers-get-it-wrong/#comment-699</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PublicRecords]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 21:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://33bits.org/?p=254#comment-699</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So a FOIA request is all you need and then you CAN get all this data and put it online, right?  Since there are no names to redact, it&#039;s &quot;private&quot;, right?

And the Dept. of Health is not staffed by religious persons who might misuse the data, or &quot;leak&quot; it, right?

And, incidentally, you may be reading it wrong.  You&#039;re referring to Section 7, while Section 5 merely says they won&#039;t include name, address, or information &quot;specifically identifying&quot; any patient/female.  Just because they ARE DEFINITELY going to release aggregate reports (Section 7) DOESN&#039;T mean they aren&#039;t going to release INDIVIDUAL reports, which they consider would not &quot;reasonably lead to the identification of any individual female&quot;.

The ONLY reason for the gov&#039;t to have this info is either to act on it or publicize it.  When have you ever seen expanding bureaucracy NOT misuse its power?

&quot;But I do want to lament the fact that bloggers and special interest groups can start a controversy based on a careless (or less often, deliberate) misunderstanding&quot;

Special interest groups?  Where have you been for the last decade of government encroachment?  Trying to stop government from intimidating patients and physicians is not a special interest group.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So a FOIA request is all you need and then you CAN get all this data and put it online, right?  Since there are no names to redact, it&#8217;s &#8220;private&#8221;, right?</p>
<p>And the Dept. of Health is not staffed by religious persons who might misuse the data, or &#8220;leak&#8221; it, right?</p>
<p>And, incidentally, you may be reading it wrong.  You&#8217;re referring to Section 7, while Section 5 merely says they won&#8217;t include name, address, or information &#8220;specifically identifying&#8221; any patient/female.  Just because they ARE DEFINITELY going to release aggregate reports (Section 7) DOESN&#8217;T mean they aren&#8217;t going to release INDIVIDUAL reports, which they consider would not &#8220;reasonably lead to the identification of any individual female&#8221;.</p>
<p>The ONLY reason for the gov&#8217;t to have this info is either to act on it or publicize it.  When have you ever seen expanding bureaucracy NOT misuse its power?</p>
<p>&#8220;But I do want to lament the fact that bloggers and special interest groups can start a controversy based on a careless (or less often, deliberate) misunderstanding&#8221;</p>
<p>Special interest groups?  Where have you been for the last decade of government encroachment?  Trying to stop government from intimidating patients and physicians is not a special interest group.</p>
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